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    1. Top | #21
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ejb View Post
      it is all about maximising medals for team China;

      Please example to me, if Wang Hao threw the match or not, how does that maximise medals for China at London 2012?
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    2. Top | #22
      John18 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis View Post
      Please example to me, if Wang Hao threw the match or not, how does that maximise medals for China at London 2012?
      I think "the theory" is that LGL was afraid that the loser in the final would be so down that he could play bad in the Team Competition and so China maybe could be a bit in danger.
      So he talked with Wang Hao who is the older and the wiser and he thought that he was the one who could handle the defeat in final.

      Again, I just repeat what I understood. I don't know what is true or not (I can't understand chinese).

    3. Top | #23
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by John18 View Post
      I think "the theory" is that LGL was afraid that the loser in the final would be so down that he could play bad in the Team Competition and so China maybe could be a bit in danger.
      So he talked with Wang Hao who is the older and the wiser and he thought that he was the one who could handle the defeat in final.

      Again, I just repeat what I understood. I don't know what is true or not (I can't understand chinese).

      Don't worry, I know what you mean.

      To carry on this debate.
      It doesn't matter who wins basically - ZJK or WH, so if things are fixed. Then does it matter who wins? They should focus on Teams event - included preserving energy levels.

      Now back to my understanding.
      This is not the first time LGL has talked about Wang Hao and about London 2012.
      In this talk show, LGL is teaching/talking about standing up - after fallen. He talk about his personal life first - his 1996 olympic (lucky to get in), as well as his 1999 world champ and the build up to it - including his "near suspension" due to illegal substance from urine test.
      As a player, he had to stand up after fallen hard many times in his career and it wasn't different after 2004 where a year into the job, he lead China to loose an Olympic Gold. They change the way they prepare for tournament from 2005 and in 2008, they won everything that was on offer.

      Then he started to continue talking about Wang Hao and the direct word translation/mean is indeed a hint to Wang Hao to give the match to ZJK.
      But I read it differently, as I have seen many interviews since 2012.

      Before 2012, Wang Hao was in a slump. As a Wang Hao fan, i thought Ma Long would replace him with the "injury" card method.
      ZJK's record against Wang Hao is also very clear. Wang Hao is the underdog.

      LGL was trying to get 2nd place pressure out of Wang Hao and get him to play more openingly with less baggage.
      LGL in previous interviews all told Wang Hao to let go, and I read the same "command" as the same. As Wang Hao has "lost" in his mind only, so the way I read it is that Wang Hao must not focus on loosing and even if he loose - there is nothing to be ashame about - the nothing to be ashame about is what I feel LGL is saying about "now this is your duty in national team" - no matter if he wins or loose, he must play good table tennis - similar to stories of LGL himself in that TV Show.

      So after LGL shared his sentence of command to WH: 我说皓,你一定要做好以决赛输给张继科为荣,你必须调整好这样的心态,你王皓才有作用
      LGL said, and Wang Hao did indeed loose (Chinese word used means- "indeed it really happened") to ZJK in the finals (meaning another 2nd place for WH) 所以下来,真的决赛中,王皓输给了张继科, but Wang Hao manage to handle the defeat and performed very well in Teams and Doubles - 但在团体赛中,王皓起到了中坚的作用,跟张继科继续配双打,获得了最后的胜利。我觉得王皓其实很勇敢,公心比私心强的多
      So why did LGL share the story of WH? it is how he got up from falling again (2nd place) and did well in other events that was required of him.
      This is the same "principle" as what LGL has shared about himself in that TV Show.

      So for any doubters, please watch the entire TV Show + reserch Wang Hao's condition from news/interviews etc prior to 2012 as well as all LGL's words to encourage WH prior to 2012 and after.
      If you picture this together, then I think it is clear that LGL was meaning something else - same as what I am refering too. LGL is talking about standing up after falling hard.

      On a side note....
      Wang Hao besides being a CNT student of LGL, is also team mate from the PLA (army club). LGL is Wang Hao's direct commander.....so imo if any match was due to be thrown - it will only make sense that Wang Hao gets his Grand Slam due to favouritism + age and to rest ZJK for the Teams and doubles...
      It really doesn't make sense why LGL would fix it so ZJK wins...
      If things was fixed, then WH should of getting 2008 already

      ZJK even came out and said, if the match was fixed, why would he and WH argue with an umpire over 1 point?
      Wang Hao didn't need to argue if it was fixed hey?
      Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 10-31-2014 at 05:04 PM.

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    5. Top | #24
      luofu is offline
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      How he used to express it was pretty wide.
      So it is very object how obe can interpret it. Thats why it started this matter.

      Sorry. I didnt trabslate it perfectely. There was my own interpretion in it aswell.

      I see it in a more positiv way.


      And I personaly world never see it as a "one cant misunderstand it" matter.

      Who knows?
      Maybe Wang Hao misunderstood this himself.

      In my opinion. LGL never ordered Wang Hao to lose the match.

    6. Top | #25
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      Wang Hao probably would have lost anyway. The real issue about London 2012 was why was he there in the first place.

      By rights the other person in representing China in the singles should have been Ma Long.

      Despite losing to Boll in 2010 and then failing to win the World's in Rotterdam, he had the best results leading up to London 2012 and consistently beat ZJK in WTTF finals. The world no.1 (at the time) vs the world champ was the final people wanted to see, but it didn't happen. Liu Guoliang chose Wang Hao instead.

      Why? Accordingly to Liu on this TV programme it was because he wanted a fall guy, to eliminate the risk of China slipping up in the team competition. Perhaps he was worried about JLK going off the rails if he lost to Ma Long in the final. Personally, I doubt it would have made much difference to result of team event - China would have still walked it. Either way, the elimination of ZLK's no.1 rival gave him a huge advantage in London.

      This could well have been a factor in ZLK's barrier busting rampage last week, as he finally had an opportunity to play and beat Ma Long in a major international final.

    7. Top | #26
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      Zhang Jike deserved the win, he played well and won. The story doesn't sound quite right and doesn't really make sense to me. If I was Wang Hao I would've given it my best shot and tried to win (especially since he had already gotten sliver twice and this was a last chance), even if this jeopardized future selection by China it's the fair thing to do.

    8. Top | #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by ejb View Post
      Wang Hao probably would have lost anyway. The real issue about London 2012 was why was he there in the first place.

      By rights the other person in representing China in the singles should have been Ma Long.

      Despite losing to Boll in 2010 and then failing to win the World's in Rotterdam, he had the best results leading up to London 2012 and consistently beat ZJK in WTTF finals. The world no.1 (at the time) vs the world champ was the final people wanted to see, but it didn't happen. Liu Guoliang chose Wang Hao instead.

      Why? Accordingly to Liu on this TV programme it was because he wanted a fall guy, to eliminate the risk of China slipping up in the team competition. Perhaps he was worried about JLK going off the rails if he lost to Ma Long in the final. Personally, I doubt it would have made much difference to result of team event - China would have still walked it. Either way, the elimination of ZLK's no.1 rival gave him a huge advantage in London.

      This could well have been a factor in ZLK's barrier busting rampage last week, as he finally had an opportunity to play and beat Ma Long in a major international final.
      Olympic selection was predetermined by the world rankings after the WTTC2011 ma long was lower than wang hao and zhang jike of course this didnt bother LGL to ban wang hao (put him on team events only) if he wanted, but ma long has not proven himself before world cup 2012 (then again he won against a non chinese player). Wang hao had much better mentality and calmness than ma long so you just cant kick out of the team your most steady player, steadier than zjk also against foreign players. besides wang hao won against ma long in their 3 most crucial encounters (2009 wttc 2009 national games 2011 wttc)

      Dont forget that since 2008 the whole world waited to see ML winning a world competition describing him as the ultimate favorite. No hate towards ma long but when you are LGL and want to secure gold you cant trust players who havent made it yet.
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    9. Top | #28
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ejb View Post
      Wang Hao probably would have lost anyway. The real issue about London 2012 was why was he there in the first place.

      By rights the other person in representing China in the singles should have been Ma Long.

      Despite losing to Boll in 2010 and then failing to win the World's in Rotterdam, he had the best results leading up to London 2012 and consistently beat ZJK in WTTF finals. The world no.1 (at the time) vs the world champ was the final people wanted to see, but it didn't happen. Liu Guoliang chose Wang Hao instead.

      Why? Accordingly to Liu on this TV programme it was because he wanted a fall guy, to eliminate the risk of China slipping up in the team competition. Perhaps he was worried about JLK going off the rails if he lost to Ma Long in the final. Personally, I doubt it would have made much difference to result of team event - China would have still walked it. Either way, the elimination of ZLK's no.1 rival gave him a huge advantage in London.

      This could well have been a factor in ZLK's barrier busting rampage last week, as he finally had an opportunity to play and beat Ma Long in a major international final.
      Now you are making assumptions on why ZJK barrier busting.
      Seriously... did you not know ZJK has been in a slump this year?
      Did you not see he didn't have a smooth World Cup?
      Coming back from behind?
      ZJK was in a huge pressure leading into the World Cup and got more pressure in the world cup alone. This is the reason why he went crazy after winning - not because of things that happened few years ago.....

      I agree Wang Hao shouldn't be in London, but Wang Hao qualified to be in London - fair and square. Ma Long was not good enough to get enough points to be the direct 2 qualifiers based on world ranking (a qualification procedure that i don't agree with - how do you get direct qualifires 1 year prior to the tournament???)

      LGL did not choose Wang Hao, but WH qualified. For LGL to "injure" Wang Hao and replace him with Ma Long will cause more debate.
      So can you see a pattern here? not easy to be LGL or coach of China - either decision will have people like you making acquisition.

      If you know Chinese then watch the whole video again. And see what is the purpose of LGL brining out this "story of your fall guy".
      Ask yourself, what does this story link to his other stories for 15 mins prior to the fall guy story.
      Again, my question to you is....if they are worried about teams so much, why did they bother even play properly in the finals? Fix it so ZJK wins and both ZJK and WH to conserve energy. But no, it was a proper match up still, and guess what happened. ZJK didn't play that well after his gold medal win....why is that?

      Again, the only person who eliminate ZJK's number 1 rival is Ma Long - he didn't win enough points to be in the London, or maybe it is ITTF to set a qualification 1 year and not 6 month prior. Ma Long just peaked too late, if he had 1 or 2 more good wins into the 2011 July world ranking, then he would be in the Olympic.

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    11. Top | #29
      Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy View Post
      Olympic selection was predetermined by the world rankings after the WTTC2011 ma long was lower than wang hao and zhang jike of course this didnt bother LGL to ban wang hao (put him on team events only) if he wanted, but ma long has not proven himself before world cup 2012 (then again he won against a non chinese player). Wang hao had much better mentality and calmness than ma long so you just cant kick out of the team your most steady player, steadier than zjk also against foreign players. besides wang hao won against ma long in their 3 most crucial encounters (2009 wttc 2009 national games 2011 wttc)

      Dont forget that since 2008 the whole world waited to see ML winning a world competition describing him as the ultimate favorite. No hate towards ma long but when you are LGL and want to secure gold you cant trust players who havent made it yet.
      I think if 3 players played in 2012, this would never of happened.
      2016 will be worse - which 2 to play
      China has 4 to 5 players that can win Olympic Gold, but only 2 is allowed to take part.
      Does CNT management allow the players to qualify themself based on merit and ITTF qualificaiton procedure, or do LGL and coaching staff intervene and send the best player to play on behalf of China?

      Imo Olympic has become fortune telling mission. If they send/qualify the wrong player, then history will change

    12. Top | #30
      John18 is offline
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      I didn't know the story of Jiao Zhimin but to concede five times in 8 years of career must be very painful.
      And for others chinese athletes who had to do that too.
      "I have conceded five times in my eight years of competing internationally. Therefore, I don't want to play anymore."

      Chinese Table Tennis Team's History of Match Fixing
      Last edited by John18; 11-02-2014 at 08:12 PM.

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